amin
Aug 18, 10:28 PM
Obviously, inherently the iMac design is inferior to the Mac Pro/Powermac.
It may be obvious, but based on your earlier statement that a Conroe iMac would be "able to crunch through" apps faster than a Mac Pro, the obvious seemed worth identifying.
But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
*snip*
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
*snip*
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
It may be obvious, but based on your earlier statement that a Conroe iMac would be "able to crunch through" apps faster than a Mac Pro, the obvious seemed worth identifying.
But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
*snip*
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
*snip*
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
FoxHoundADAM
Apr 11, 11:56 AM
Ugh. The iPhone 4, while beautiful, still needs a larger screen for my liking. Maybe I just bite the bullet and switch to the Inspire. Save some cash in the process.
evilgEEk
Aug 11, 06:08 PM
You might want to read some reviews on the Chocolate before buying it. I've seen a handful of reviews that were less than favorable.
A good resource is Phonescoop.com. They usually have a decent amount of user reviews upon which you can base your purchasing decisions.
A good friend of mine just bought one and it definitely seems to be the best phone Verizon is currently offering. I also want a slider, I'm tired of flip phones, although if the iPhone was a flip I'm sure I could handle a flip phone for a few more years. ;)
Verizon's phone selection is just horrible, but that's not enough for me to change services. Especially since I've personally never had a single problem with Verizon coverage or customer service, they've always been great.
I think I'm going to hold off for a month or so, just because I don't have the cash to get a Chocolate and then an iPhone. And if an iPhone is released, I'll obviously have to get one. ;)
EDIT: Thanks for the link though, I'll definitely check it out. :)
A good resource is Phonescoop.com. They usually have a decent amount of user reviews upon which you can base your purchasing decisions.
A good friend of mine just bought one and it definitely seems to be the best phone Verizon is currently offering. I also want a slider, I'm tired of flip phones, although if the iPhone was a flip I'm sure I could handle a flip phone for a few more years. ;)
Verizon's phone selection is just horrible, but that's not enough for me to change services. Especially since I've personally never had a single problem with Verizon coverage or customer service, they've always been great.
I think I'm going to hold off for a month or so, just because I don't have the cash to get a Chocolate and then an iPhone. And if an iPhone is released, I'll obviously have to get one. ;)
EDIT: Thanks for the link though, I'll definitely check it out. :)
TripHop
Jun 9, 08:53 PM
Okay.. well I guess I wont be taking my chances at RadioShack. If they let me preorder, would I be good to go on launch day? Or could i still encounter problemsLooks like it will be no problem to lock in an iP4 for launch morning as long as we pre-order next Tuesday morning. It's sort of like 2 launch days - pre order next Tuesday the 15th for a $50 advance (in the form of a gift card) and receive the 24th. The Shack is much handier than any other launch store for me. :)
Willis
Jul 27, 01:45 PM
I havent checked yet to see if someone mentioned it, but in regard to what people expect to see at WWDC, dont worry if it isnt annouced then... Paris Expo is in September.
Mac Pro's might come out then i think.
Mac Pro's might come out then i think.
Soura2112
Apr 6, 03:09 PM
First off I'm not a full time pro, I do about 30% pro work the rest is for family and friends who I don't charge cause it's usually simple. That being said I want to get more pro work. I'm in the process if buying a new HD Cam so I want Blu Ray ability. With buying a new video camera and hopefully the new FCP if it meets my standards will be an expensive month since I don't have an internal or external Blu Ray drive yet and I want full use of Blu Ray, even if we must go with LaCie or whatever Blu Ray drive you like.
Even for my non pro videos of my dogs I want Blu Ray use it's that simple, 1080p, not 720 files to run through iTunes then to my Apple TV, only way to stream videos at my house at the moment outside of iPad and iPhone. I could pay to connect my 360 and sadly no PS3 to Mac stream. (I may be wrong on my home streaming so be nice please).
Most of my pro video is sports and some weddings. They all want a disc, not all want Blu Ray but I want the option for my clients.
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Even for my non pro videos of my dogs I want Blu Ray use it's that simple, 1080p, not 720 files to run through iTunes then to my Apple TV, only way to stream videos at my house at the moment outside of iPad and iPhone. I could pay to connect my 360 and sadly no PS3 to Mac stream. (I may be wrong on my home streaming so be nice please).
Most of my pro video is sports and some weddings. They all want a disc, not all want Blu Ray but I want the option for my clients.
Squire
Jul 14, 09:12 PM
Here are my guesses/wishes...
I like your line of thinking. You know, what if Apple just released 4 Mac Pro models? Or offered 2 Mac Pro models and 2 iMac Pro models. The bottom two could have Conroe chips and the top two could have 2 x Woodcrest chips. Perhaps have an ever so slight case design difference between the two (i.e. slightly smaller on the low end or charcoal black on the upper end). Because, when you think of it, "prosumers" who already own a display are faced with a difficult buying decision with the current lineup.
-Squire
I like your line of thinking. You know, what if Apple just released 4 Mac Pro models? Or offered 2 Mac Pro models and 2 iMac Pro models. The bottom two could have Conroe chips and the top two could have 2 x Woodcrest chips. Perhaps have an ever so slight case design difference between the two (i.e. slightly smaller on the low end or charcoal black on the upper end). Because, when you think of it, "prosumers" who already own a display are faced with a difficult buying decision with the current lineup.
-Squire
k995
Apr 20, 04:52 AM
And the design was released after the iPhone was out.
ANd you design hardware in a couple of weeks?
Doesnt really matter LG prada wich has simular concept and specs was designed AND shown over a month before iphone was ever shown.
LG can see the future?
Apple copies, samsung copies, LG copies,... everybody does it only only always wants to make believe everyone copies from them.
ANd you design hardware in a couple of weeks?
Doesnt really matter LG prada wich has simular concept and specs was designed AND shown over a month before iphone was ever shown.
LG can see the future?
Apple copies, samsung copies, LG copies,... everybody does it only only always wants to make believe everyone copies from them.
mdntcallr
Sep 19, 10:00 AM
Well, I've been on MacRumors since last week and I'm already tired of posts telling me what I really need. I don't recall seeing posts saying Yonah was crap. Most people just want to feel like they are making a good investment on an expensive piece of equipment that may be around for 3-4+ years. I would like a laptop with a 64-bit processor. Period. I don't care what you think I need. The problem with posts like this are that they waste my time, and the time of other users who are looking for information on the release of the new MBP models.
I agree with your sentiments. While it is great to get steady advancements in the amount of say, 2x year refreshes. The performance difference between merom and yonah is an incremental upgrade. not a major big deal.
you should be happy with the laptop you have. The chip has the power you need for now and the next several years.
Personally for me though, I am still on my PB 1.25 alum, so i am very interested in good progress for the new MBP's, such as... larger hard drives 160 gb as BTO option, better ram pricing, better graphics cards, and options for killer graphics card, and... finally Blu-Ray drives.
that and a Airplane/Auto Magsafe power adapter. dont you think that would be nice. it's been to long without it! cmon apple. build it!
I agree with your sentiments. While it is great to get steady advancements in the amount of say, 2x year refreshes. The performance difference between merom and yonah is an incremental upgrade. not a major big deal.
you should be happy with the laptop you have. The chip has the power you need for now and the next several years.
Personally for me though, I am still on my PB 1.25 alum, so i am very interested in good progress for the new MBP's, such as... larger hard drives 160 gb as BTO option, better ram pricing, better graphics cards, and options for killer graphics card, and... finally Blu-Ray drives.
that and a Airplane/Auto Magsafe power adapter. dont you think that would be nice. it's been to long without it! cmon apple. build it!
M87
Mar 26, 01:54 PM
Mt. Fuji. A hat tip to Japan.
The use of the Mt. Fuji desktop picture in Lion actually pre-dates the disaster in Japan. Just a very cool coincidence.
The use of the Mt. Fuji desktop picture in Lion actually pre-dates the disaster in Japan. Just a very cool coincidence.
KnightWRX
Apr 6, 03:41 PM
double.
littleman23408
Nov 23, 12:53 PM
My copy shipped from Amazon, Can't wait for tomorrow!:D:D:D
eeboarder
Jul 27, 07:44 PM
With those frequent speed bumps I begin to worry that my G5 imac will not be fast enough to run Leopard...
It absolutely will!!! Leopard is just going to be mostly beneficial for dual-core machines. Read this article:
http://macosrumors.com/20060710A1.php
Leopard sounds FAST!
It absolutely will!!! Leopard is just going to be mostly beneficial for dual-core machines. Read this article:
http://macosrumors.com/20060710A1.php
Leopard sounds FAST!
layte
Mar 31, 03:52 PM
You're moving the goal posts. That always has been the wonderful thing about the words "open" and "free" with respect to software. They never really meant much but had such loaded connotations. You can change the definition mid-argument as easily as you change what hat you're wearing.
I look ace in a Trilby.
You know, projecting isn't healthy at all.
You'd best stop then old fella (yea, I can play forum clich�d response 101 as well, /tips-hat)
I look ace in a Trilby.
You know, projecting isn't healthy at all.
You'd best stop then old fella (yea, I can play forum clich�d response 101 as well, /tips-hat)
cult hero
Mar 26, 12:32 AM
Can't believe it's anywhere near GM time. Way too many bugs and inconsistencies in behavior. New networking tools in Server have to be implemented now that SMB is being canned - that's not a minor addition. Calling it a release candidate is a stretch, but calling it GM is just plain crazy.
The GPL3 issue with Samba has been around for a LONG time. The announcement was made in 2007. I have some feeling that Apple's been brewing their Samba replacement for a long time. (Although I don't think this is a GM either.)
About the only thing that I find disappointing about this release is the lack of a new filesystem. However, that might just be because coming from a Linux background I probably payed WAY more attention to filesystems than most people.
The GPL3 issue with Samba has been around for a LONG time. The announcement was made in 2007. I have some feeling that Apple's been brewing their Samba replacement for a long time. (Although I don't think this is a GM either.)
About the only thing that I find disappointing about this release is the lack of a new filesystem. However, that might just be because coming from a Linux background I probably payed WAY more attention to filesystems than most people.
NJRonbo
Jun 15, 02:17 PM
What a cluster F it was at Radio Shack.
It was just my friend and I on line. Nobody else.
Was there for 30 minutes before I left for work
leaving them with my name. My friend stayed
an additional 30 minutes.
They could not generate a pin. System kept
rejecting their request. Finally we were told they
were out of pins.
Meanwhile, I still see posts about some of you
getting PIN numbers.
It was just my friend and I on line. Nobody else.
Was there for 30 minutes before I left for work
leaving them with my name. My friend stayed
an additional 30 minutes.
They could not generate a pin. System kept
rejecting their request. Finally we were told they
were out of pins.
Meanwhile, I still see posts about some of you
getting PIN numbers.
robogobo
Apr 8, 05:01 AM
Maybe they ate too much magical unicorn dust and it clouded their judgement. :rolleyes:
Omg unicorn dust that is so funny! Where do you get this awesome material? Hilarious!
Omg unicorn dust that is so funny! Where do you get this awesome material? Hilarious!
iGary
Aug 25, 04:36 PM
Having to go through 5 Cinema Displays, two logic boards, a new processor set, a dented new PB, 12 Apple Store visits, and 16 hours on the phone with AppleCare pretty much sums up my satisfaction with Apple's support.
They are nice and courteous, but not given the power to do much in most situations. Pass the buck is their motto.
They are nice and courteous, but not given the power to do much in most situations. Pass the buck is their motto.
digitalbiker
Aug 25, 03:42 PM
It would be a shame to Apple toss aside its consistent record of having the industry's best support.
I have always wondered if Apple's past industry record on support was really accurate. I think that Apple had such a loyal following of users that they tended to give Apple rosey marks for what most would classify as just average support.
Now with more new users coming to the mac. Support is now getting a less biased audience who have dealt with other computer support groups and are able to make a more accurate comparison.
I have always wondered if Apple's past industry record on support was really accurate. I think that Apple had such a loyal following of users that they tended to give Apple rosey marks for what most would classify as just average support.
Now with more new users coming to the mac. Support is now getting a less biased audience who have dealt with other computer support groups and are able to make a more accurate comparison.
generik
Sep 18, 11:09 PM
All I have to say is:
"what the hell is taking them so frigging long?"
All new diamond dust coated titanium MBP chasis! Strong enough to ground PCs into dust...
"what the hell is taking them so frigging long?"
All new diamond dust coated titanium MBP chasis! Strong enough to ground PCs into dust...
brayhite
Apr 11, 11:55 AM
I have to laugh to myself whenever I read someone say "If Apple waits too long, I may jump ship and head over to Android/RIM/Win7/whatever."
Yeah, right. And then come December you'll make a thread titled "Owned Droid 3, now own iPhone 5 and LOVE IT!!!!"
Apple won't suffer from delaying. If iPhone 4 and survive "antenna-gate", I doubt a 3-6 month delay of releasing a product will have a lasting negative effect on them at all.
Yeah, right. And then come December you'll make a thread titled "Owned Droid 3, now own iPhone 5 and LOVE IT!!!!"
Apple won't suffer from delaying. If iPhone 4 and survive "antenna-gate", I doubt a 3-6 month delay of releasing a product will have a lasting negative effect on them at all.
iGary
Sep 12, 11:02 AM
The folks over at Anandtech have dropped engineering samples of the quad core cloverton into a Mac Pro - http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6
and it worked ... all eight cores were recognised.
The rest of the article was interesting too.
This willl probably be the update I purchase next year - if it makes it into the Mac Pro - thanks for the link.
and it worked ... all eight cores were recognised.
The rest of the article was interesting too.
This willl probably be the update I purchase next year - if it makes it into the Mac Pro - thanks for the link.
donlphi
Nov 29, 12:31 AM
I also wanted to add... go onto UNIVERSAL MUSIC GROUP (http://new.umusic.com/flash.aspx) and see how many groups you would be missing if ITUNES didn't offer Universal.
If you need "98 DEGREES" on your iPOD, then you better start freaking out...
Otherwise, don't sweat it. Universal has nothing to threaten Apple with. No worries here.
If you need "98 DEGREES" on your iPOD, then you better start freaking out...
Otherwise, don't sweat it. Universal has nothing to threaten Apple with. No worries here.
Billy Boo Bob
Aug 6, 08:38 PM
It won't be a live video stream. In the afternoon Apple will begin streaming a compressed HD recording of it.
I wish they would provide a full QT file download, like the movie trailers. Even if it isn't HD, but just the standard QT. Sure the file would be large, but they could BitTorrent it. Make a standalone app that uses BT, but will only download that one single file. You wouldn't even have to know that BT was under the hood... Just that you were downloading at near peak speeds (depending on when you actually grab the file).
I wish they would provide a full QT file download, like the movie trailers. Even if it isn't HD, but just the standard QT. Sure the file would be large, but they could BitTorrent it. Make a standalone app that uses BT, but will only download that one single file. You wouldn't even have to know that BT was under the hood... Just that you were downloading at near peak speeds (depending on when you actually grab the file).
