Maccus Aurelius
Sep 19, 12:14 PM
I'm finding it hilarious that you can put yourself into Stevie's reality distortion field even after the Intel switch. Maybe while Apple had PPC, you could have said that. But now that direct hardware comparisons can be made, don't you think it's stupid that sub-$1000 PC notebooks have better processors than the best Apple has to offer?
And yes, the MBP is a top-of-the-line laptop. Apart from 2'' thick behemoths, it was one of the fastest portables around, and it was priced accordingly. Now it's still priced as such, but times are moving, technology is advancing, and if you compare pound for pound, the MBP is behind.
I don't see too many laptops that are sub $1000 that offer Core 2 Duo at the moment. Alienware has one that costs just about that much. Dell's XPS is the only laptop line with C2D, which are generally more costly than the Macbook Pros, even the 17". At the very least, apple has already equipped some of their computers with 64-bit support where it would probably benefit the most. The Mac Pro will obviously be the most likely to see great benefits from it. The imac, too, will see more benefit. but seeing as how macbooks and macbook pros are just coming out of their hardware glitches, i think its better to iron out those issues before stuffing new chips into them.
And yes, the MBP is a top-of-the-line laptop. Apart from 2'' thick behemoths, it was one of the fastest portables around, and it was priced accordingly. Now it's still priced as such, but times are moving, technology is advancing, and if you compare pound for pound, the MBP is behind.
I don't see too many laptops that are sub $1000 that offer Core 2 Duo at the moment. Alienware has one that costs just about that much. Dell's XPS is the only laptop line with C2D, which are generally more costly than the Macbook Pros, even the 17". At the very least, apple has already equipped some of their computers with 64-bit support where it would probably benefit the most. The Mac Pro will obviously be the most likely to see great benefits from it. The imac, too, will see more benefit. but seeing as how macbooks and macbook pros are just coming out of their hardware glitches, i think its better to iron out those issues before stuffing new chips into them.
Bilbo63
Apr 19, 02:43 PM
I'm not saying that Apple stole IP from Xerox, but what I am is that its quite disappointing to see Apple fanboys trying to distort the past into making it seem as though Apple created the first GUI, when that is CLEARLY not the case. The GUI had its roots in Xerox PARC. That, is a FACT.
Many of "Apple fanboys" understand that the key GUI concepts were done at Xerox and give Xerox full credit for some incredible work. It is really too bad that they (Xerox brass) didn't understand what it was that their engineers were developing.
Fortunately for Apple they "got it" and gave those same engineers the means to run with the GUI concept. Since that time, Apple has done a tremendous work expanding on those basic ideas and much of that work has been repeatedly copied.
I give Xerox full credit, their early work was nothing short of a game-changer for the entire industry.
edit... spelling. Ugh!
Many of "Apple fanboys" understand that the key GUI concepts were done at Xerox and give Xerox full credit for some incredible work. It is really too bad that they (Xerox brass) didn't understand what it was that their engineers were developing.
Fortunately for Apple they "got it" and gave those same engineers the means to run with the GUI concept. Since that time, Apple has done a tremendous work expanding on those basic ideas and much of that work has been repeatedly copied.
I give Xerox full credit, their early work was nothing short of a game-changer for the entire industry.
edit... spelling. Ugh!
TangoCharlie
Jul 21, 05:59 AM
ANy gurus on hand here..
is it possible that Apple will come out with dual woocrest then when kentfield hits the street, we could just buy the processor and snap out woody and snap in Kentfield.
IS THIS FEASIBLE:rolleyes:
No. Kentsfield will be an LGA775 (same as P4, Conroe), whereas the Woodcrest is an LGA771 (Xeon), so, no you will not be able to pop a Kentsfield into the Woodcrests' socket.
However, Cloverto[w]n will be an LGA771, so you'll be able (in theory) to pop one (or two!) Clovertown based Xeons into your brand new HP xw8400 oops, Apple Mac Pro and watch as your case melts. :confused:
is it possible that Apple will come out with dual woocrest then when kentfield hits the street, we could just buy the processor and snap out woody and snap in Kentfield.
IS THIS FEASIBLE:rolleyes:
No. Kentsfield will be an LGA775 (same as P4, Conroe), whereas the Woodcrest is an LGA771 (Xeon), so, no you will not be able to pop a Kentsfield into the Woodcrests' socket.
However, Cloverto[w]n will be an LGA771, so you'll be able (in theory) to pop one (or two!) Clovertown based Xeons into your brand new HP xw8400 oops, Apple Mac Pro and watch as your case melts. :confused:
SPUY767
Jul 27, 04:03 PM
It's always a little alarming when a post starts "sorry if I missed it but..."
The 2.7 G5 will be the highest clocked chip in a mac for a while, but probably not the fastest. In a number of benchmarks, Yonah has already beaten dual G5's, the conroes and woodrests will likely widen the gap even more.
I'm sorry. I thought that it was adequately implied that I meant the fastest chip, to date. Anyway, that's what I meant if I've been misunderstood.
The 2.7 G5 will be the highest clocked chip in a mac for a while, but probably not the fastest. In a number of benchmarks, Yonah has already beaten dual G5's, the conroes and woodrests will likely widen the gap even more.
I'm sorry. I thought that it was adequately implied that I meant the fastest chip, to date. Anyway, that's what I meant if I've been misunderstood.
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 04:12 PM
Yeah, I've got several as well, if I spend more than two weeks in another country or visit there frequently I tend to get local subscription. Much more convenient to stay connected with the locals. This way I help more and more countries to get over the 100% treshold as well :rolleyes:
LOL... be careful. Let us not start a flame war.;)
LOL... be careful. Let us not start a flame war.;)
Evangelion
Aug 12, 03:51 AM
Is it possible for Apple to release a phone sold in their stores that would work on all networks? Or have several versions of the phone that will work for Verizon, Cingular...
I'll never be ceased at just how retarded the phone-system is outside Finland (or Scandinavia). I just buy a phone, and I get a SIM-card, and boom, it just works. I can replace the SIM at will, and it will just work. No hassle, no worries that "but this phone wotn work with that operator!". Unsatisfied with your current operator? It takes maybe ten minutes to get a new operator, and you get to keep your old number, AND your phone (it is YOUR phone, after all!).
I think that the scheme where the phones are tied to certain operator is just plain retarded. This is a perfect example as to why that is so. And I'm REALLY surprised that you folks (the rest of the world that is) hasn't seen the light on this issue. You just happily accept a scheme that limits choice and competition.
I'll never be ceased at just how retarded the phone-system is outside Finland (or Scandinavia). I just buy a phone, and I get a SIM-card, and boom, it just works. I can replace the SIM at will, and it will just work. No hassle, no worries that "but this phone wotn work with that operator!". Unsatisfied with your current operator? It takes maybe ten minutes to get a new operator, and you get to keep your old number, AND your phone (it is YOUR phone, after all!).
I think that the scheme where the phones are tied to certain operator is just plain retarded. This is a perfect example as to why that is so. And I'm REALLY surprised that you folks (the rest of the world that is) hasn't seen the light on this issue. You just happily accept a scheme that limits choice and competition.
Porchland
Aug 7, 04:11 PM
Looks very nice. Spaces will become a "how did we live without this?" feature as expose already has.
Does anyone know when we can expect a video of the WWDC to be uploaded??:confused:
I can't really tell how Spaces will work the Expose.
Apple's Leopard Sneak Peak says:
Configure your Spaces by visiting the Dashboard and Exposé preference pane in System Preferences. Add rows and columns until you have all the desktop real estate you need. Arrange your Spaces as you see fit, then assign what function keys you want to control them. You can also lock specific applications to specific Spaces, so you’ll always know where, say, Safari or Keynote is at all times.
I could the simulteneous use of both getting a little confusing.
My main concern overall about Leopard is that feature creep is going to cut into ease of use.
Does anyone know when we can expect a video of the WWDC to be uploaded??:confused:
I can't really tell how Spaces will work the Expose.
Apple's Leopard Sneak Peak says:
Configure your Spaces by visiting the Dashboard and Exposé preference pane in System Preferences. Add rows and columns until you have all the desktop real estate you need. Arrange your Spaces as you see fit, then assign what function keys you want to control them. You can also lock specific applications to specific Spaces, so you’ll always know where, say, Safari or Keynote is at all times.
I could the simulteneous use of both getting a little confusing.
My main concern overall about Leopard is that feature creep is going to cut into ease of use.
LagunaSol
Apr 6, 04:13 PM
Isn't it amazing that so many of these XOOM owners also, coincidentally, "own" an iPad/iPad 2, or their spouse/mom/dog/significant other does?
Either there's a lot of exaggerating (astroturfing) going on, or someone's spouse/mom/dog/significant other has a lot more sense. ;)
Why, I own an iPad and a XOOM and a Galaxy Tab and that HP Windows 7 Slate thingy and a Nook and a prototype PlayBook and I can tell you from personal experience that the iPad is like 100x better than all of those! :rolleyes:
Either there's a lot of exaggerating (astroturfing) going on, or someone's spouse/mom/dog/significant other has a lot more sense. ;)
Why, I own an iPad and a XOOM and a Galaxy Tab and that HP Windows 7 Slate thingy and a Nook and a prototype PlayBook and I can tell you from personal experience that the iPad is like 100x better than all of those! :rolleyes:
Huhn
Mar 22, 03:36 PM
Thing is...you can't.
mhh not now, but since iPad2 launch is on friday here in germany and together with the fact that every dog and cat wants an iPad too....I guess they will be available at the same time tbh.
mhh not now, but since iPad2 launch is on friday here in germany and together with the fact that every dog and cat wants an iPad too....I guess they will be available at the same time tbh.
MCIowaRulz
Apr 5, 08:35 PM
4GB download with in-app purchases for content would be my guess.
I hope they ship it on DVD as i'm not going to tie up my Internet connection for 3 hrs while it downloads:(
I hope they ship it on DVD as i'm not going to tie up my Internet connection for 3 hrs while it downloads:(
epitaphic
Aug 18, 11:46 PM
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Steviejobz
Mar 22, 01:03 PM
Can I exchange my iPad 2 for this Playbook?
I really like the minimal app appearance of the Playbook compared to Apple's cluttered group of tens of thousands of applications.
I really like the minimal app appearance of the Playbook compared to Apple's cluttered group of tens of thousands of applications.
squeeks
Apr 28, 05:41 PM
all want to know is was why it always has to go to name calling..be it..wacko christians, teabaggers or racists conservatives..it seems like every thread any of the liberals on the forum posts always goes to calling names at whatever group it is that they have a problem with today.
iGary
Aug 25, 05:19 PM
So a happy ending, but a disgracefully long wait to get to it.
Usually the case. My situation played out over only a month, really, but it was several visits to the Apple Store and hours on the phone with useless "product specialists."
Usually the case. My situation played out over only a month, really, but it was several visits to the Apple Store and hours on the phone with useless "product specialists."
Some_Big_Spoon
Aug 26, 09:21 PM
May have been said, but ship dates on iMacs are 7-10 days.
entatlrg
Apr 6, 12:38 PM
The most interesting thing here is how some people hang on every word over updates to the MacBook Air line.
Some won't touch it without a Sandy Bridge update, others want it left alone to save the NVIDIA graphics.
From dated chips, future proofing, when to buy, getting in at the right time and on and on ...
What gives?
In 90% of the tasks the average MacBook Air owner does are they really going to notice it either way?
Future proofing/saving a few hundred dollars ... there is no such thing ... just look back at the electronics you purchased in the past... how has 'future proofing' worked for you so far? lol
Like it. Buy it. Enjoy it.
Some won't touch it without a Sandy Bridge update, others want it left alone to save the NVIDIA graphics.
From dated chips, future proofing, when to buy, getting in at the right time and on and on ...
What gives?
In 90% of the tasks the average MacBook Air owner does are they really going to notice it either way?
Future proofing/saving a few hundred dollars ... there is no such thing ... just look back at the electronics you purchased in the past... how has 'future proofing' worked for you so far? lol
Like it. Buy it. Enjoy it.
Digital Skunk
Mar 22, 12:55 PM
Assuming this gets out of vaporware status, it looks pretty good. The custom interface also looks good. Apple better have some improvements to the UI (ahem, notifications) in iOS 5
Sorry, completely forgot about that.
iOS rocks in apps, but it does suck *** in terms of notifications and true multitasking.
Apple should've been the ones to buy Palm.
Sorry, completely forgot about that.
iOS rocks in apps, but it does suck *** in terms of notifications and true multitasking.
Apple should've been the ones to buy Palm.
portishead
Apr 12, 02:50 AM
Are you a professional editor? Having never had any of the above issues suggests to me that you have been very lucky if you are.
Because somebody talks about 2 issues I don't deal with in my workflow? Jeez, calm down.
Because somebody talks about 2 issues I don't deal with in my workflow? Jeez, calm down.
kev0476
Jul 20, 09:28 AM
New MacPro rev2.
8 cores = 24Ghz
(with Free fire extinguisher and ear plugs) :p
you need to do your math better, extra core = 1.5x - 1.8x speed increase. but still the same power usage as a normal core!
8 cores = 24Ghz
(with Free fire extinguisher and ear plugs) :p
you need to do your math better, extra core = 1.5x - 1.8x speed increase. but still the same power usage as a normal core!
dclocke
Sep 19, 09:43 AM
You're so wrong. Most people posting in this thread don't have a clue what 64 bit computing really means. They just think they have to have it because it's the newest thing.
That doesn't mean they think they need a 64-bit processor just so they can use a lot of RAM. I may be wrong, but the content of your post certainly doesn't justify this assertion.
That doesn't mean they think they need a 64-bit processor just so they can use a lot of RAM. I may be wrong, but the content of your post certainly doesn't justify this assertion.
tmofee
Mar 25, 10:44 PM
i wonder if apple will release a version in the app store???
aricher
Sep 13, 09:56 AM
Clovertown is a 64-bit CPU.
Ask your PC-loving IT guy if he uses Windows XP64 and more than 4 gigabytes of RAM. If not, then 32-bit processors are apparently okay for him, too.
hee hee - thanks.
Ask your PC-loving IT guy if he uses Windows XP64 and more than 4 gigabytes of RAM. If not, then 32-bit processors are apparently okay for him, too.
hee hee - thanks.
digitalbiker
Aug 7, 08:19 PM
Wait. Does this mean that the Leopard doesn't support current MBP or MB? the ones that use 32 bit Yonah based Core Duo CPU.
No, it doesn't mean that at all. It works with both 32 and 64 bit CPU's. The only thing you won't be able to do is run 64 bit apps in 64 bit mode.
No, it doesn't mean that at all. It works with both 32 and 64 bit CPU's. The only thing you won't be able to do is run 64 bit apps in 64 bit mode.
georgee2face
Mar 23, 08:57 AM
Well, let's hear it for the Angles and the Saxons who came down frrom the North Sea ( Dennmark, Germany, france and the Netherlands) to start the language we can argue over so fluently and ardently today!!!!!
G
You know, this silly attitude really becomes tiring. Modern English really began in the 1600s, as did English colonization of what is now North America. The British English and American English languages formed concurrently, American is NOT a late offshoot. Rather, they both stem from the same Middle and Old English, but separately.
Get over yourselves.
G
You know, this silly attitude really becomes tiring. Modern English really began in the 1600s, as did English colonization of what is now North America. The British English and American English languages formed concurrently, American is NOT a late offshoot. Rather, they both stem from the same Middle and Old English, but separately.
Get over yourselves.
